I don’t know exactly what to say about your response, I don’t know that there really is much to say except this… I think perhaps you’ve read something into my post that I wasn’t trying to say (although, I’m not denying there’s some truth to it). While I do believe seminary is important and I do believe that pretty much anyone can make it through if they set their mind to it, and I also believe that seminary is important even besides whatever scholarly skills and resources are developed, I say all of this not as someone who enjoyed seminary…. at all.

I found seminary to be an exceedingly dark and unfulfilling time. I didn’t enjoy it. I wasn’t encouraged by most of the professors, and I had to figure out how to learn despite the fact that much of what I was learning was presented in ways that were as fundamentally different from my personal learning style as possible. And yet, I still think it was important and still believe seminary should be part of the normative preparation for ministers. Exceptions? Sure, I suppose there are exceptions. But if you ask me they should truly be exceptions.

The answer, from my perspective, is not to get rid of seminary (even though the process, like any, will always have it’s problems), but to help fix it and to help it become something better, healthier, and more effective at preparing people for ministry.

I keep coming back to the fact that, even thought there are obviously some differences between ministers and other professionals, there are (and should be) some similarities too. I don’t care how good of a learner someone is, I don’t want a surgeon who didn’t go to medical school. A lot of bright people represent themselves in court, but they’re never as good as a well-trained lawyer.

Grace and Peace,
`tim

There is a recent trend of really sharp, entrepreneurial, driven men skipping seminary all together and planting churches. I don’t have a problem with this at all if those people have picked up the tools they need in other places and are continuing to grow theologically and philosophically. If a person can handle the Greek and Hebrew, knows at least at the cursory level Christian history and can wrestle through and find answers for deep, difficult theological questions then he (she) might not need a degree from a seminary. These people are usually driven, avid studiers and readers by nature. If they could, they would spend their whole day with the scriptures as well as with men like Calvin, Luther and Spurgeon. I said might because seminary then becomes an obedience issue between him and the Lord and may still be a very good idea.

On the other hand, if you don’t have the tools, have a tendency to be lazy in study, can’t navigate through the languages, know nothing of how to find answers to deep, difficult theological questions except to quote John Piper or Marva Dawn and know nothing of our rich history then you need to go get some tools. If you are lazy in study and continue to get in front of people and teach, you have much more courage than I do. I would strongly recommend seminary for its accountability and plan to educate you in doctrine, language and history.

I have one year at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School under my belt as well as three years through Western Theological Seminary’s Distance Learning Program. Honestly, both were poor fits for the type of learn that I am. Seminary felt to me like I was laying a foundation in a house I was already living in. Any good educator knows that there are many different ways to learn and often higher education institutions focus on only one or two ways to learn. After a great deal of prayer and seeking wise counsel, my wife Laura and I decided that I would continue to study and learn but not to seek a degree until the time is right or that the patience of our classis grows weary.

In my humble opinion and observations, seminary education does not necessarily equal quality, theologically astute, biblical pastors, nor does a lack of training necessarily equal unbiblical, uneducate and/or unqualified pastors .

Thanks for the note.

RE: 10% rule; I get the argument, I just don’t buy it. I understand how a bachelor’s degree can seem like a “hoop” for some people but I can’t imagine any other profession accepting that as an argument. And, as I said, I’ve seen the 10% rule invoked on multiple occasions – in each case it was people who didn’t want to go back rather than people who couldn’t. I don’t believe the hardship of going back to school as a 2nd or 3rd career is more than those who go to school right away… I just believe it’s different. (There are also safety nets for those coming back to school later in life that the rest of us didn’t have.)

As for the accreditation thing. That is an issue for me. I firmly believe in the importance of accreditation. That the “University of the People” isn’t conferring degrees yet gives me a sense of their integrity. We’ll see how well the experiment goes. The ATS accredits distance learning programs – I imagine a FreeSem degree (can I trademark that?!) would fall under the same category.

In the RCA the educational oversight of a student (accredited by the ATS) is (at least in theory) balanced by the ministry/integrity/personal preparation oversight of a Classis and the agency providing a fitness for ministry certificate (which varies depending on the seminary attended).

Grace and peace,
`tim

the 10% rule you mentioned is an interesting one. we took advantage of this every year, but not to bolster numbers. we were very selective of the men and women that entered this route. many were 2nd or 3rd career in their mid 30′s, 40′s and even 50′s who did not have the opportunity to go to college when they were younger…not just a choice they made. if candidates came to us without an undergrad degree who were in their 20′s we referred them on to a undergrad program. this was always a 2nd preference. certainly we wanted our students to have a full educational background, but we also recognize God’s call to folks from all walks of life and circumstances.

the need to fill parishes is simultaneously wed to a concern over academic integrity. The Free University is an interesting idea. How do you feel about the unaccredited aspect of it? The Association of Theological Schools is great for providing standards for education, I wonder if it can inhibit the ministry of the church? Don’t get me wrong, their standards or regulations are great to keep quality education around (as opposed to scary self-acredited fundamentalist programs that offer courses in Christian Martial Arts – http://www.gmau.org/dev/gmau_college.html)

anyway…just a few thoughts